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Jeff Peck · The Moderator

RE: Brett Favre retires...again

King Baja · Guru

Let's look at averages: (per season)
Favre: 3618 yds, 25 TDs, 17 INTs
Marino: 3609 yds, 24 TDs, 14 INTs
Manning: 4148 yds, 30 TDs, 15 INTs
Young: 2208 yds, 15 TDs, 7 INTs
Unitas: 2235 yds; 16 TDs, 14 INTs
Montana: 2703 yds; 18 TDs, 9 INTs
Graham: 2358 yds, 17 TDs, 13 INTs

There are your averages.

In Favre's career, 6 out of 18 seasons has seen Favre throw the same amount or more INTs than TDs. That is not what i want out of my best QB of all time. Peyton Manning has only done that one time, and that was in his rookie season. Dan Marino only did it one time as well - in his final season.

Why should i want a QB who throws 17 INTs every single season, when i can get the same production from a Dan Marino with less INTs or a Peyton Manning.

King Baja · Guru

Peyton Manning has 3 MVPs in 11 seasons. Brett Favre has 3 in 18 seasons. Doesnt take a rocket scientist nor a calculator do figure out who has the better stat there.

Completions is a stat that can be based alot on the quality of WRs. However, if all the quarterbacks on my previous list played the same amount of games as Brett Favre, they would have the same amount or more completions than Favre.

pennstate10min · Senior Member

there are so many factors that contribute to being the best qb of all time. idk if you can definetly say any qb is the best of all time. favre is the leader in all of the numbers, but montana did more winning. i think you have to give the nod to a guy like brady, or montana, over a guy like favre or marino because they won more

SteveMJ31 · Guru

First of all Baja, way to not be a homer by saying that Brady is the best ever. Second of all, a lot of times with Favre, he would make up for his INTs with a lot of TD passes and he won a ton of games. So it's pretty obvious that a good majority of his interceptions didn't effect the outcome of Packers games. I have been a Bears fan my entire life. I hate the Packers. I hate Brett Favre especially. But the reason why I hate him so much is because two times every year he would beat the living crap out of the Bears D. I have always hated Favre with every bone in my body, but I respect him like crazy. Only three players have ever made me dread the game the week leading up to it, Barry Sanders, Brett Favre and most recently, Adrian Peterson. No other players have had that affect on me. Not Peyton Manning(who may be considered the best QB ever by the time he retires), not Tom Brady, not anyone else. You can bring stats up all you want, but I'll have you know that everytime you do, you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot because along with all those interceptions, you also show that he he has the most yards and TDs ever. But the fact of the matter is, Favre's greatness extends far beyond statistics BS. Statistics don't show the talent or the heart that Favre spilled out every minute of every game he ever played in a Packers jersey. So baja, if you don't have anything half-way intelligent to say, keep your mouth shut.

-- Edited by SteveMJ31 at 00:58, 2009-02-15

King Baja · Guru

OH YEAH THAT INTERCEPTION 2 SEASONS AGO VS THE GIANTS IN THE PLAYOFFS DIDNT COST THEM THE GAME. THE REASON HE HAS THE MOST TOUCHDOWNS AND PASSING YARDS IS BECAUSE OF LONGEVITY.

cheesybacon24 · Senior Member

But the fact that he has the most interceptions DOESN'T have to do with longevity?!?!? are you kidding me? The only reason favre has the most passing yards EVER and the most passing TD's EVER is because he played a long time but the reason he has the most interceptions isn't? Quit being stubborn baja. If you think a great player is determined only by great stats, you my friend are sadly mistaken. How about when Favre threw for 4 td's and 399 yards the day after his dad died. Is that in a stat book? How about when favre played almost a whole season with a broken thumb? How about how favre had to overcome being addicted to pain pills? Show me where those are in the stat book baja.

King Baja · Guru

Playing with a broken thumb and coming of painkillers doesn't mean he is the best QB ever.

pmoehrin · Guru

I may be the only person alive who thinks the greatest QB of all time was Fran Tarkenton.

He was a running QB at a time where running QB's where rarely looked at, but if you compare his passing numbers against the other QB's of his era that are as good if not better then any other QB year in and year out.

Personally I'd love to see what this guy could have done in a modern offensive passing scheme with all the new rules.

Guarentee you Tark would have at least 25 TD's 3500 yards and 500 yards on the ground in virtually every year he played in.

cheesybacon24 · Senior Member

Baja you can't be so narrow-minded when it comes to such a debatable topic. You can't just look at stats and determine who the greatest player in that position is.

King Baja · Guru

How else do u measure someone's greatness?Hopefully your not going to say that BS about him taking pills and overcoming that. toughness and greatness are much different.

Bob333 · Guru

Ha JP your opionion and I have mine. I think he'll be a Hof when its all said and done and when he gets in 15 years from now if this forum is still going I will say I told you so JP and you'll have to live with it.

pennstate10min · Senior Member

you honestly think greg jennings is going to be a hall of famer?

cheesybacon24 · Senior Member

But baja you're saying toughness can't contribute to greatness??

Jeff Peck · The Moderator

Ok Bob, I'll respect your opinon, but I disagree with it...and this coming from a Packers fan.

I have never said Favre was the greatest QB of all-time, to me is in a class of Top 3 to 5 QB's ever. And it does say something when every single pass Favre threw it mean't something. Whether INT or TD, you got 110% Brett Favre every game he played.

To me, he is the man. (wooooooooooooo)

SteveMJ31 · Guru

Yea, baja, toughness has a lot to with greatness. The fact that he hasn't missed a start since he was an Atlanta Falcon has a lot to do with why he's great. And there were plenty of times that he shouldn't have played but did, and played well.

Jeff Peck · The Moderator

SteveMJ31 wrote:

Yea, baja, toughness has a lot to with greatness. The fact that he hasn't missed a start since he was an Atlanta Falcon has a lot to do with why he's great. And there were plenty of times that he shouldn't have played but did, and played well.

Who would have ever thought that a Green Bay Packers fan and a Chicago Bears fan would agree on the greatness of Brett Favre.

King Baja · Guru

cheesybacon24 wrote:

But baja you're saying toughness can't contribute to greatness??

It can. Just because your tough doesn't mean your the greatest ever to play QB.

SteveMJ31 · Guru

jeffpeck wrote:

Who would have ever thought that a Green Bay Packers fan and a Chicago Bears fan would agree on the greatness of Brett Favre.

I hear ya. The only difference is you love him and I hate him. But there's no denying how great he was.

-- Edited by SteveMJ31 at 19:44, 2009-02-15

King Baja · Guru

SteveMJ31 wrote:

Yea, baja, toughness has a lot to with greatness. The fact that he hasn't missed a start since he was an Atlanta Falcon has a lot to do with why he's great. And there were plenty of times that he shouldn't have played but did, and played well.

Steve Just Because he played with an injury doesn't mean he is great.

SteveMJ31 · Guru

It's not that he played with an injury. it's that he played with multiple injuries multiple times and still played great. You need everything explained to you don't you?

King Baja · Guru

SteveMJ31 wrote:

he played with multiple injuries and still played great.

give me one example

SteveMJ31 · Guru

He played an entire season with a thumb that could have fallen off at any time. And the Packers still made the playoffs. Holy crap dude, give me one example of you not needing something explained to you a thousand times.

King Baja · Guru

That makes him good but not the best ever

SteveMJ31 · Guru

Dude, are you a f*king idiot?? Ok, you're right, playing through injury doesn't make you the best ever. But playing through injuries and putting up the best numbers ever for a quarterback does. So why don't you go find some stats that show one bad thing and about 5 amazing things.

King Baja · Guru

He threw 22 TDs and 23 INTs that year he had an injured thumb. Those aren't the best ever #s ever for a QB.

SteveMJ31 · Guru

That was one example. You asked for it, I gave it to you. And when I said he played through injuries and put up the best numbers ever for a quarterback I was talking about his entire career. He had back injuries, foot injuries, ankle injuries, shoulder injuries, etc. and he still played every game and put up amazing numbers. Ok, answer this than, if Favre isn't the best ever(look at your precious stats and they will tell you he is), then who is?

King Baja · Guru

65,127 yards; 464 TDs; 310 INTs; 85.4 QB rating in 18 seasons.

Let's look at, say, Dan Marino

61,361 yards; 420 TDs; 252 INTs; 86.4 QB rating in 17 seasons.

How bout... Peyton Manning

45,628 yards; 333 TDs; 165 INTs; 94.7 QB rating in 11 seasons.

Steve Young

33,124 yards; 232 TDs; 107 INTs; 96.8 QB rating in 15 seasons.

Johnny U

40,239 yards; 290 TDs; 253 INTs; 78.2 QB rating in 18 seasons.

Montana

40,551 yards; 273 TDs; 139 INTs; 92.3 QB rating in 15 seasons.

Otto Graham

23,584 yards; 174 TDs; 135 INTs; 86.6 QB rating in 10 seasons.

There u go steve

The Freak Captain Obvious · Guru

Joe Montana is the best of all time period.

Bob333 · Guru

Baja only you think that they would get in the Hall of Fame. Deion Branch is a good reciever but not a hall of famer baja comeon man use your head

SteveMJ31 · Guru

Baja, You've already shown me those stats, and all they show is that Favre is better than all of them. Now, please stop being John McCain at the debates and answer my question. If Favre isn't the best ever, who is?

cheesybacon24 · Senior Member

Baja he threw for the most yards and the most touchdowns and NEVER MISSED A START!! Did you get that or should i say it again... NEVER MISSED A START!!!

The Freak Captain Obvious · Guru

Ill answer the question steve....Montana was better than Favre

Bob333 · Guru

Baja its Farve end up discussion, till Peyton Manning beats all his stats he's the best QB as of now to this day.

King Baja · Guru

BOB,STEVE, AND JP WHY CAN'T U GET THIS THROUGH YOUR ****ING SKULLS, FAVRE IS NOT THE GREATEST QB EVER. I DON'T GIVE A **** HE MADE UP FOR ALL OF THOSE INTS WITH TDS, HE HAS ACCURACY PROBLEMS. ANY QB WITH ACCURACY PROBLEMS IS NOT THE BEST QB EVER. I THINK THE BEST QB EVER IS MONTANA OR UNITAS.

Jeff Peck · The Moderator

baja wrote:

BOB,STEVE, AND JP WHY CAN'T U GET THIS THROUGH YOUR ****ING SKULLS, FAVRE IS NOT THE GREATEST QB EVER. I DON'T GIVE A **** HE MADE UP FOR ALL OF THOSE INTS WITH TDS, HE HAS ACCURACY PROBLEMS. ANY QB WITH ACCURACY PROBLEMS IS NOT THE BEST QB EVER. I THINK THE BEST QB EVER IS MONTANA OR UNITAS.

First off I'm glad your Caps Lock works Baja, thanks for testing it on the forums.

I love how we've gone from comparing Favre to all great QBs, then to Favre compared to Tom Brady and back to Favre to all great QBs again. We've gone around and around so much that I think we have completed more laps then yesterdays Daytona 500.

The fact of the matter is this, Favre is one of the greatest QBs of all-time, please read that comment again and again. One Of, not THE greatest. It's hard giving out titles like that in ANY sport (unless your Jordan, Ali or Gretzky).

Favre is part of that QB club of the greatest QBs of all-time whether you like it or not. History will write Favre as one of the greatest. The first ever 3-Time MVP, 1-Time Super Bowl Champion, Consective Starts streak, Various QB records to his name and he did it all without one of the best reciever cores given to him; decent, yes. Great, no.

He was a gunslinger, he was "blue collar" and played every play as if it was his last. To me he is great and a legend. To you it's obviously something different and we will agree to disagree.

Will someone break his records someday, yes. Records are made to be broken.

But there will always be one person in the NFL that represents the #4 and that is Brett Favre. Very rarely in sports do you get that kind of association (NBA - #23, MLB - #42, NHL - #99, NASCAR - #3).

He played every Sunday like it was his last and you gotta respect that.

He made plays happen, gave it his all

The Freak Captain Obvious · Guru

Favre isnt even in my top 5

SteveMJ31 · Guru

I'm done with this topic. Baja has drained the small amount of Favre defense from me. Now it's just pissing me off.

Bob333 · Guru

There's no point baja of doing this anymore, we give you our opionion and you keep biting our heads off because you don't agree.

SteveMJ31 · Guru

I'm just sick of baja repeating the same things over and over. I only have so much Favre defense in me, and he just exhausted it all.

cheesybacon24 · Senior Member

hey co, just curious why favre isn't in your top 5.

The Freak Captain Obvious · Guru

My top 5 of the last 20 years...

#5--Steve Young......really brought the mobile QB into the current mode withh his running ability and one of the most accurate throwers ever. Stats arent as high because he was behind Montana for so long.

#4--Peyton Manning...provided he stays healthey, he will own every passing record ever. Great winning percentage also, even after his rookie team went 1-15.

#3-- John Elway... best arm I ever saw. Took his teams to 5 super bowls and most of those teams had no ther offensive weapons other than John.

#2--- Tom Brady... even though I hate the Patriots, the guy just freaking wins. Extremely intelligent and knows how to disect an opposing teams defense.

#1-- Joe Montana---- 4 Super bowl wins. Maybe the most clutch QB ever. Brought a mystique back to a position that had been lacking it since Joe Namath.

King Baja · Guru

Finally someone ****ing agrees with me

SteveMJ31 · Guru

No, you win by me not giving a sh*t anymore. So congrats, go celebrate your forum argument victory.

King Baja · Guru

w00t w00t w00t

The Freak Captain Obvious · Guru

did u really just w00t?

King Baja · Guru

yes i just did

Jeff Peck · The Moderator

I think people just got sick of the same spamming post of stats Baja grabbed off wikipedia and that everyone of his responses included the words ****ing, ****, and anything with a * in it.

You gotta use big words with Baja since his vocabulary goes for miles and miles.

SteveMJ31 · Guru

Yea, so baja, enjoy your little "victory", but know the only reason I'm done with this argument is because I'm sick of hearing you repeat the same crap verbatim with every post.

King Baja · Guru

I picked up that language when I was in Boston.